Category: the Rant Board
Is it just me or has Facebook gotten even harder to use? The mobile site is still fine but it wouldn't log me in this morning so I had to try using the full site. It was a total nightmare. I couldn't even find the place where I'm supposed to enter my status message. A few friends posted some time ago about how to bring the status messages to the top of your profile but it involved clicking and dragging and all sorts of visual stuff that I think is impossible to do with a screenreader. As luck would have it, the mobile site let me in and it's now working, but there are honestly times when I sincerely think of quitting FB and looking for a similar but more accessible place. This is really sad, since I've got alot of friends on there, but if I can't use the service, what's the point in staying? And those people change the site so frequently nowadays that who knows if they'd even pay attention to a plea for accessibility? I know there's Twitter but you can only write short things and for some reason, it just drives me nuts. Maybe, it's cause I see tweets all the time in my lj that aren't put behind cuts and on my friend's FB pages.
hmmm, it works jsut fine for me.
I'm on the Macbook with Safari so that could be why. But I know several of my riends have had to deal with being logged out of their accounts, even after they've changed their passwords.
try using taps and H, for heading to nevigate around the main site.
Yeah, it works fine for me as well.
That's why I eventually quit Facebook. I use Myspace instead because, for me at least, it makes more sense.
Using a MBP with Safari, and it works fine for me. Vo-command-h will get you to headings, and if you have Snow Leopard, the easiest is to turn quicknav on, rotor to headings, and use down arrow till you get to the one you want, then right-arrow to the comment field, like button, etc. Super easy!
Works fine for me, and myspace gives me a headache.
I'm not into Myspace either. Talk about visual and cluttered. I'd rather Livejournal.
Hi.
I recently started playing with facebook light at light.facebook.com
It is still in development and some features could be missing from there but it is pritty accessible. The homepage of facebook light will change deppending of the new things you have. If you have request they will be there or if you have updates from your friends they are there in the homepage.
If you want to update your status you find the link saying write and when you click on it an edit box appears and you can type there.
I think when this interface is finished it is going to be good for blind people.
facebook light is more of a convenience then anything.
If you want to use all the cool applications that most of the population find fascinating, you're going to need to use the full sight.
Oh and another version of facebook that is quite usable, at least with NVDA is touch.facebook.com.
you don't navigate it by headings, instead you read line by line.
I think it's meant for iPhones and any device with a touch interface, still it's another little alternative.
Hmm, interesting. I never navigate by headings etc, just by links list and searching for text strings or input fields, but line by line? That's gotta be strange. I think most aps on there are just plain silly, but some are really good. Still, you've gotta be careful. I wanted to delete some and had to have someone sighted to do it cause no screenreader could handle the delete button. The one thing I don't like about the mobile site, which is what I use most often, is that it won't let me post topics to groups or read topics in them. Very strange.
Iphone.facebook.com
that's another one.
For braillenote users like me, m.facebook.com is the most accesssible version by far. The full version is sort of usable, but it's not great. The touch site appeared to be completely inaccessible for me. The one thing i'd like is the ability to create groups on m.facebook.com cos for some reason, I can't create groups on the full version.
The mobile site wasn't intended for blind people; it was originally intended for mobile/cell phone users to browse FB from their phones. It's just convenient that it's also very accessible. Unfortunately, blind users make up a very small part of the 120 million + users on facebook, so don't expect things to get more accessible anytime soon. The same goes for other sites like MySpace. It's a shame, but true and for now at least, there is very little we can do about it. We could write loads of emails to FB asking them to make it more accessible, but it probably wouldn't be enough as they wouldn't go and start making big accessibility changes just to improve the experience of less than 100000 users out of over 120000000 users.
i still don't get why things show up in my friends status updates, on my home page, out of order. For example, the top thing wil be like within 2 hours then under that might be something from 4 days ago and then the next thing will be only 3 hours ago etc. I don't want to see something from 3 days ago near the top of the updates lol
just wento the mobile site and got the download this file and it was a php. So I just hit cancel. The full site says I need to upgrade my browser in order to use the site and the lite version didn't seem to be posting, or if it was, I couldn't see my status. This is getting ridiculous. I'm seriously thinking of quitting and finding a FB replacement. I joined to get closer to friends, to make new ones and to join groups, not to get a headache.
I doubt this will help, but i'll throw it out here anyway.
Try going to www.skweezer.com and in the edit field, type facebook.com and press the "search" button. What skweezer does is it optimises web pages for mobile devices. But it's helped me make pages more accessible. I'm not sure whether this'll work on a full computer, but it works using a Braillenote MPower.
tif, maybe you can convence them to use dos.
Well, it'll be very interesting trying FB out in Net-Tamer. I'm sure something like Arachne could handle it, but that browser's not accessible. If not, then I'm sure one of the newer ones out there could do it. It's just a matter of finding one that'll work with a screenreader.
Fuck it. I'm just gonna have someone sighted edit my profile and put up a message that I won't be on it anymore.
Like I said I've tried Facebook before and just didn't like it. I tried it once for a few months before finally just deleting the page because I almost never logged on. Then a few weeks ago I tried it again but quickly realized I was just setting myself up for the same situation as before so I deleted my page.
I swore that I wouldn't join it, then did and loved it, and now, it's becoming a total pain. I even tried it with Firefox (latest version) and my demo of Windoweyes. It works but is slow and I don't really know how to use Windoweyes, which also complicates things. I shouldn't have to learn a whole new browser and screenreader just to use one site.
well I use my space, twitir, and face book heres my view if any one cares my space is easy to use but has way to much crap lots of junk but it is doable. then twitter isnt bad but I am rather new to it and it's going pretty well so far. Now face book I have found lots of friends from child hood high school all threw life and i like it allot I even have it where it sends diffrent updates and messages to my cell phone by text and email witch I use mobile spaeks on but last night when i was on face book it was lagging so bad and I was getting fed up with it when I came across a message that told me that I was using a older browser and if I updated my browser to IE8 that it would work much better and it did it now is kicking but and working well and by chance if you get irratated by all the stuff then go into your setting and change it up to make you happy I love face book because of that site I have so many people from my whole life and it's great. and for my cell I have a T-Mobile Shadow using mobile speaks on it and I found www.m.facebook.com to be the most agreeable site for visually impaired people so thats my two cents hope you find what you need from it peace out Darryl
I'm not having issues with Facebook, though most people I talk to are. So I dunno about all this trouble, Facebook is still great for me.
Same here. It takes some getting used to, and you have to remember that some things take place within the page you are on. Example, if you click on notifications, it opens up a window on that page. You might have to refresh the screen reader so it can recognize it. It's insert escape for Jaws. Not sure about the others.
It's interesting that facebook is for social networking and excludes those of us who are blind and visually impaired.
Sounds just like society. m.facebook.com is the best, but it leaves out too much. It sucks b/c I use it for my job and life b/c that's where my conections are. blah
People, people, people! It does not exclude us, so take the passifiers out of your mouth, put your grown-up pants on, and learn how to use the site! First off, the normal Facebook site at www.facebook.com is the simplest to use on a Windows or Mac system. Use your screen reader's heading keystrokes to get to different posts.
If you want to see events as they happen, click on the link that says "live feed". There! Wasn't that easy? Sometimes that link doesn't appear as a link, due to there being active content, so route your screen reader's cursor to the link, and click your screen reader's mouse button to activate.
Now, take a deep breath, and don't get nervous! I will show you another view you can use! If you click on Status Update, you will only see statuses of your friends. Again, you may navigate by headings, usually using H, and Shift-H. On the Mack, Vo-Command-H, or Vo-Command-Shift-H, or turn Quicknav on, and rotor to headings, and press the down or up arrows!
There now, wasn't that easier than complaining?
No, especially for those of us who don't or hardly ever use headings, mouse buttons and such and don't want to upgrade to a browser full of bloatware. However, I did find that both the mobile and the regular site work with NVDA and Firefox, so that's a very good thing.
Yes. NVDA and Firefox both work very well with Facebook. In many ways, the combo works better than Jaws and Internet Exploder. Voiceover in Safari and Snow Leopard work exceptionally as well, and are all tightly integrated, and very sexy!
I've never used Snow Leopard but certainly Leopard, VoiceOver and Safari work beautifully with it. Unfortunately, my Mac is at the Apple store getting fixed.
I used to not use navigation keys way back when I was learning how to use a computer, but I find them so much faster in getting to certain places on websites. I first see what all is there and figure out if there are tables, headings, etc.
I usially do a find for the live feed and from there I can cick on it.
Placemarkers can help too.
Actually m.facebook.com is nice not only for your mobile device but because it separates data into categories. That's more of an age thing though, as typically users in their early twenties or teens like to see a ton of data all over the place on the screen, while those of us who have been in offices / using Outlook, etc., like to see categories. That isn't an accessibility issue; I know people who can see who are my age and have the same dislikes about these sorts of sites but it's a mentality issue. I have recently jumped in the deep end and started using Facebook, both the big and little sites. While I find some aspects of it to be generally buggy - yet again not accessibility - most basic users, and especially social networking users, don't seem to care. I have a cousin in her mid twenties who loves this stuff and yet wrote on my wall she has trouble with the web in general, but really flies with Facebook / blogs / etc. Here again,I really think it's a mentality / mindset and not a accessibility issue. Facebook doesn't like boolean expressions, has bugs in its filter drop-down lists when searching for groups and several other things if you need to write an external widget to get feeds and pump the data into another space, well that stuff's challenging, but I've taken this as opportunity to not just try and contact family and friends, but learning more about the social networking aspect of the web 2.0 space; it's more than just a cool cloud to write neat widget into. To culturally understand this will help to understand a growing segment of the world's population. Sure it gets frustrating if the active content makes your Braille display / cursor jump but that's only a problem because we move element by element. And yes, I totally depend on quick navigation keys; you have a page's structure in your head and can go from there. Jessie thanks for the pointers because I have found it harder to figure Facebook's structure - but wrote that off as a perception / mental block and not accessibility. In my opinion, a lot of social networking type places look really messy; I don't mean inaccessible, just look like a veritable mess! But that's because us older-school types tend to think in terms of task flow, categorization and such. That being said, I'm a major proponent of the cloud / web 2.0 all over the place, and think the Google and Microsoft online applications are a very good innovation. But the cultural steps involved in social networking are just that; cultural. I got a Facebook so I could show my wife - who can see - how to use its controls as she was getting confused with some things. From what I have seen thus far, for every type of content on Facebook, there appears to be an off switch someplace.
Just my thoughts ...
I use internet explorer for the mobile site, but only because for some reason I can't log into my account while using Firefox. On the rare occasions I go on the regular site, I find that Firefox works much better with it, as it does with most other sites, although maybe that's more to do with Web Visum than Firefox itself. Or maybe it's really because Firefox is much faster, better, and not to mention more secure. I use Jaws, and most things on the regular site work fine if I use Firefox. It does lag horribly with IE, and I personally wouldn't recommend upgrading to IE 8, as I heard there are a lot of accessibility issues with it. I would recommend just switching to Firefox, as it's much faster anyway.
Well, I'm 25 and hate clutter. I'd much rather sites have things in nice neat categories, so I don't have a bunch of garbage all over my screen. To that end, I truly prefer a site like LiveJournal. The layout is very clean and straight forward and you get to places faster.
Live journal isn't cluttered? What about all that crap at the top of the page that takes you to different communities? I didn't come on there to read a hundred advertisements before somebody's journal. I liked the old layout, but I don't see how it's any less cluttered than facebook now. Not to mention all the flash content makes my computer lag big time.
I guess it depends on what browser you're using. I don't see any of that with mine, though I have seen some ads with IE. Usually, I just go to my friends page when I wanna read something, select either all friends or journals only and that's it. Posting is easy too and everything about profiles is accessible.
Another thing with any of these communities I think for many of us is that you get on because you know someone who's on there. I have never tried Livejournal for the simple reason I don't know anyone on there, or at least if they are, I don't know about it. Oddly enough, I discovered this site by accident while Googling for some info, found it, found I could read a lot of its content and then got on. I never got on Facebook for years, because you really can't read much content until you're a member. My wife needed help with it, members of my family have it, so I got on. Oddly enough she thinks about giving it up, and now - I'll be laughed at by some peers probably - I'm actually hooked. I used to stereotype these types of places as being shallow and ... well you've probably heard it all ... but just goes to show there's more to it than one sees initially. Most of those perceptions I think came from Myspace; my nieces were so hooked on it that for a whole weekend I had them here they were at it, fighting over use of the computer. One was so stuck to it I literally pulled her chair back to get her attention 'cause everyone else had their coats on and was ready to go to the Christmas tree lighting in our city. From seeing that and similar stuff, that's what I thought of all these types of places, but it's just another sphere.
I wonder who will win out in the end, though, since so many of these places have such competing services. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between Facebook status updates and Twitter, though I've seen this virtual 'wall' and 'wall to wall' where a family member wrote a question on my wall and me answering it joined the two, I guess, for that thread. Is that how it works? Perhaps more concatenated than mentions (@replies) on Twitter.
I use the mobile version of fb, but rarely post statuses on it. I'm only keeping my page because there are a lot of people on my friend's list that I wouldn't otherwise be in touch with. as for myspace, I canceled my account a couple weeks ago. and twitter...I love.
And thanks, Jessie, for all the tips. I've been using them with Firefox -- my browser of choice -- and had found the page previously to be tough to understand structurYou.
I have a question as I just started Mafia Wars, but maybe it's just a social networking thing. I get how friends invited me in and I started, I've levelled up a bit. But why would it say to ask your friends for help on stuff? Doesn't that make you ... um, kinda a wuss ... I mean it looks like the one-click badass game - better than all the hearts and inspirational stuff some family members send ... Anyway someone explain that to me as it's probably a cultural gap or something. I would understand asking your network for help were you wounded but - I had just successfully done a couple thefts and stuff, aside from being low on energy - you just wait for the counter to go back up looks lie - Just seems you'd lose respect to go beggin' in a badass game. So far mafia wars is fun, but I don't mind mousing around and the content is pretty active. Just curious; do you all play this or similar games on there?
I don't play any games on fb.
So is there a way to send a bonus only to certain people? I don't want to be annoying like those sending hearts and flowers and stuff, but a friend just sent me a power-up which I used. When you level or do a job, sometimes you can send out a bonus. I haven't done it because I don't know how to make sure it only goes to people in my friends list that like that sorta thing. Maybe there's a way to make a badass group or something, and point Mafia Wars at it. As a developer all I've read is your app reads the user's friends collection. Or at least that's what it sounds like ...
But for those of you on Facebook is there some form of etiquette when you should or shouldn't let a game do the 'send a friend ' thing? I think family member who do it with the lost cow or kitten in farmville or whatever just allow the game to send to everyone. Just curious as still sorting out what's what with Facebook. But Mafia Wars is really cool.
Oh one final question, when you have the app bookmark it - I realize it's a entry in Facebook's hash table or something not a real bookmark on your physical drive, where do you find it on the site? Can't seem to find a section labeled Bookmarks but maybe I'm just missing it.
roboz, regarding games on fb, most games are base on community type of thing. ones you join, you can invite your friends to join, and have a community over there by, well, depends on what games you play and what sort of fitures they have. its another way of linking with mates i suppose.
as far as lj is concern, it is an absolutely different structure with facebook. livejournal, as the name suggest, is a journal type of thing, or diary, or blogs, if you like, but most people nowadays, have cross-posts from their tweeter, facebook, lj, and who knows what they have where else, which to be honest, is anoying.
tifanitza, if you don't wanna use fb anymore, you can delete your account there. in that way, you'll make no confusion for your friends to find you or whats ever.
i've no problem with m.facebook.com so far, nor do i have problems with facebook.com. i just don't like to use facebook.com, with the similar reasons that roboz had mention.
Thanks Season, yes I use Twitter also because I can watch things with it, like a breaking news story or whatever, and if something cool happens on Mafia Wars - not all the time just an unusual bonus - then it goes to Twitter. I did get a blog on blogger, but mostly that to write down stuff so I can send friends there when they have questions about their computers so they go there first, but I've not written on it much. Facebook I got since my family is all over the world. Thanks for the info ...
I've long since given up on full Facebook. It's mobile or lite.facebook.com for me now.
still love the reg one.
Hello Everyone,
I am in and out of enjoying FB, but I'm a stubborn soul! LOL because I "battle" through the "standard" facebook.com website! :)
I have found since the last posts came through on this thread, the "live" feed has gone, and statuses, with JAWS, keeps popping in and out of autoforms mode, now, I use JFW 10.0 but, I've had JAWS issues, and so will before another catastrophe happens, upgrade to 11.0! But regarding FB, the status then disappears, but eventally I get it to work, so to have a stratogy here, but can't remember it, and anyway, it doesn't work now! :(
The zinger games! LOL I liked Mafia Wars, though, I haven't played for ages, till the other week, and they've changed it big time, didn't know you can get updates via twitter, how does that work?
Anyway, to finish, I had a laugh last night for the wrong reasons, I decided to try FarmVille, and the "game bar" (something like that) said you haven't got a 'supported browser' um, alebeit the beta, I do use Internet Explorer 8.0, but they said, use Firefox 2 or 3, or Internet Explorer 7.0, and the copyright was 2009 still, well, I've indeed found FB to be getting slow and stuck using IE so, will start to use it on Firefox, got version 3.5 (from memory I think at any rate)! :O
But FB changes all the time, well every month, as, I keep using it for a while, even get adicted, and then don't use it for a while, and as if by magic, they change the site, but, I'm a stickler, for using sites, that some rightly or wrongly, find difficult to access, though I do use the JAWS navigation options, (not using the correct terminology), but things like "H" for headings! LOL Very useful they are too! Though, I do sometimes wonder if it is accessible, but putting it in my own words, but, as someone on here said earlier, (in my words but to the same effect) the numbers of us, are too much of a small market, compared to the vast majority of sighted people, hence, the specialist notetakers and displays been so expensive, and a dealer in access technology in the UK, told me, he didn't think this is (more in the latter to be honest) is likely to change, but I personally, am an optamist (maybe elsewhere, there is a forum on that theme! LOL ) And finally, a podcast for the blind I heard, a site, that I'm longing to return from it moving host, think it is the vitechpodcast.com (maybe something similar), had a review of FB, and they thought it was the most accessible social network, not sure if I'd go that far! LOL And, dispite, being 27 next month (in case, of reading this later, now March 2010, so in April 2010), I think I'd join the catogory, of um, prefering catogories! LOL Do that with my E-Mail, when I have the motivation to be able to keep up with my E-Mails! :(
Anyway, on that ote of confesion, and FB bleaping at me just now funnily enough, oh, that (and it did it when reading through the previous posts) LOL MyStartSocial toolbar, gets on my nerve, friends h ad it, so I downloaded it, oh silly me, I'm a fool! LOL/:)
Kind regards to All,
Timothy Bamber AKA Timber on The Zone
I have found different interfaces for different things works best. To search for stuff, I often use Mobile, and I do that for reading also. To do a quick check at work or whatever, I just log into the main site, like you said.
Interesting study cited on Cnet's BUZZ Outloud: People are starting to find things on Facebook now more than Google. Sounds like apples and oranges, right? Here's where they're right and I was wrong:
What they said was, people look within their network for things first. This recently happened twice with my wife, where, me being the resident geek, went on with my PAC Mate, became a fan of a page we're both interested in, and she went on the laptop, through her page to me as one of her friends, to "Info" and then to my pages so she could become a fan. This is not a about / sighted thing, she's sighted.
And everyone right now is pretty upset with Facebook changing all the time. I don't like it either, but they'll ultimately have to simmer down over there. Most sighted users don't like all the changing either, as they can't find stuff when it's moved all around, or when now it's a rollover. So where your reader says "mouse over" or something similar, if you're heping someone sighted, you tell them to roll the mouse over it, and especially on Facebook, the change isn't always obvious for them to see.